The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life
Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence–from Domestic Abuse to Political Terror
The Supper of the Lamb: A Culinary Reflection (Modern Library Paperbacks)
Things I Have Learned: Chapel Talks
Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day: The Discovery That Revolutionizes Home Baking
July 14th, 2008
“How to Get Grace from God”
Does that title startle you? It should.
“Getting Grace from God” by Jim Berg, BJU Dean of Students, was the formal title of the sermon that made the rounds on campus when the Spirit started poking me awake way back when.
Again — listen. Don’t take my word for it. Just look at these words carefully. And get out your Bible and read what it really says. It isn’t this.
There is even a more pointed definition [of grace] that we could, we could take, and that is from Philippians 2:13 even though this verse does not even mention grace. But Philippians 2:13 talks to us about the work of God in our lives–this divine help. And, and broadly speaking we could call grace divine help, divine enablement. But Philippians 2:13 kinda gives us a little better window into a working definition of what it is like when God is enabling us and working in us.
And Philippians 2:13 says, “for it is God that worketh in you both to will”–creating a willingness, a desire–and giving us the power, He says, “to do of His good pleasure.” So when God is working in us, He’s doing two things He says here: #1 — He’s giving us, He’s creating desire in us to do His will and He’s giving us power to do His will. And I think that’s about the best definition I’ve ever heard of grace. It is that God is working in us, creating in us a desire and a power to do His will. When God is working in us, giving us his grace, we have desire to do things we normally wouldn’t want to do. And we also have the ability to carry out those things that seem impossible to us.
And there are a lot of times in my life when I’ve looked at what I have to do, and I had no desire to do it. I’ve looked at it all and said, “I just want to close the door and leave the office and not come back for a week.” And you’ve had situations like that. There just is no desire. I just don’t want to do this right now. and I have no power to carry it out.
Well, that’s because I’m lacking God’s grace at that time. And we’ll talk in a minute about how to get it (2:38+).
And you know, your life and my life ought to have the stamp of the Supernatural on it. That somebody looks at that and says, “How on earth does all that get done?” And we ought to stand back with them and say, “I don’t know either. Except for one thing, God is doing something amazing here. It’s supernatural desire and power to do His will” (5:50+)
There is Grace for everything. And God says I will give you the divine help to do whatever you have in front of you. . . . if you’ll turn on the faucet. And we’ll talk about that (12:46+).
We have to do right and be sweet about it anyway, and we can with the Grace of God!
The reason you’re so bitter is because you don’t have Grace.
It’s not a problem with the rules, it’s the problem that we don’t have grace. It’s not a problem that WorkBrain has changed our life. [laughter] It really isn’t, folks. Nah, I mean there’s some bugs that have to worked out occasionally in any kind of new thing. But anybody who’s sitting around griping about that, whether it’s in a faculty lounge or in a room, and complaining doesn’t have the grace of God! I mean, again we may as well wear a t-shirt that says “I don’t have the grace of God right now” because that’s exactly what we’re saying to everyone that’s watching. “I’m in a hard situation that I don’t like and I don’t have the grace of God and I’m upset.” I tell you what, if our Lord was on this earth and had to use Workbrain, He wouldn’t be fussing at it like some of us have. He wouldn’t do that . . . because He has the grace of God (18:46+).
The fact that we’re so frustrated and so upset shows that we don’t have the Grace of God because He’s promised that He will make all grace abound toward us (19:43).
If you’re losing the moral battle, folks, you have no Grace from God (21:39+).
Stubborn people have no grace. The faucet does not come on. That’s why all kinds of little things and big things irritate the fire out of them. There is no grace. . . . God says, “if you wanna go down My path, I will give you all the grace you need. But if you wanna go down your path, I’ll let you go down that path. I will take away all the desire to do My will. I will take away all the power to do my will. And furthermore, while you’re going down that path, I’m gonna shoot at you! I will give grace only to the humble. The one who says ‘God can be God in my life!’” (28:19+)
July 14th, 2008
Brian Says :
This are so many things wrong with this… But his basic mistake is treating grace as a force rather than as an unchanging part of God’s character. When you start making a separation between the two you start treating grace as a power source to be tapped into and it just goes downhill from there. It becomes all about you and what you need to do to get that power.
I won’t even even get into the problem of linking having God’s grace with our outward behavior. Blech.
Nice redesign, BTW.
July 14th, 2008
Fred Says :
“‘Getting’ Grace From God”? Well, I’m certainly glad he cleared that up. Here I thought that God’s grace was something He gave freely and that I couldn’t do anything to earn it. Now that I know I can “get” grace, I’ll just have to work harder. Let’s see. I know, I’ll go back to doing all the things they told me to do when I was growing up in fundamentalist churches. That’ll get me some grace for sure!
Oh wait. Now I remember. It didn’t work then. Probably won’t work now. Oh well.
July 14th, 2008
Ana Says :
Well, no wonder I never “got Grace,” I was too stubborn to turn the faucet on.
July 14th, 2008
Hannah Says :
So, according to Berg, when I complain about having to wait over an hour in a NOT busy ER to have my son’s bleeding and cut head looked at, I don’t have Grace. My planning on writing a nasty letter to the hospital’s board of directors about haveing to wait two and half hours to get any care–that’s me being stubborn and wearing my “Ain’t got no Grace” t-shirt. So God will shoot at me.
According to Berg, Grace is all dependant on me and my actions and what I DO. Poor Berg. What an unhappy life to live! Constantly trying to measure up and get Grace when God wants to give it to him for free.
July 14th, 2008
TulipGirl Says :
My first response was the same as Brian’s. Blech.
And Bri brings up another really good point, “. . .his basic mistake is treating grace as a force . . . treating grace as a power source to be tapped into. . . what you need to do to get that power.”
Berg would probably shudder at the thought, but he sounds a LOT like Binny Hinn and his ilk. Just substitute “Holy Spirit” for “grace” in the above quotes. . . Sounds more like TBN than BJU.
July 14th, 2008
Admiring True Christianity Says :
So…..WHO does get God’s grace? It’s apparently not anyone who’s losing the moral battle. It’s not anyone who would be talking about how unbelievably buggy WorkBrain was or the rollout disaster. It’s nobody who is frustrated or upset. And it’s apparently not anyone who is fatigued or overworked. No grace to you if you’re angry. No grace to you all you who are stubborn. And if you make a selfish decision, God’s going to…what’s that?…..SHOOT at you? Huh?
No wonder I’m so confused. I believed all this stuff.
I heard a sermon today. The teaser for the show was what to do when you are facing problems: gas prices, family situations, loss of job, loss of relationship. Cut to the commercial. Preacher comes on and spends a few seconds talking about how hard things are for most everyone in the entire world today. His first major point is, “Well, the main thing is that you don’t buy into the HERESY that you have these problems because God is punishing you for some sin that you did. If that were the case then Jesus Christ himself should never have suffered since he was completely sinless.” And then he talked about Paul and his sufferings and how there was much good to the 4-yr. wait for a trial, the shipwreck, snake bite, etc. The ruler’s families were learning the gospel from Paul’s experiences.
I cry when I hear the truth now, because the Spirit is ministering to me that it IS the truth. I grew up at Bob Jones University, and the truth about God’s grace and our sins was not taught. I believed I could never be used of God because of my sin. I sorrow for the lost time and the incredible damage that was done. I have a whole bunch of catching up to do.
Thanks for your blog, Camille. I wonder if a lot of the hits your site is getting recently are from BJU IPs or maybe even faculty kids past and present. I am burdened and grieved for us all. As a group, we may need a special measure of truth learning catch-up time.
July 15th, 2008
stacy Says :
I am one of those hits on your blog and though I would delurk for this one. I came across your situation and blog through a roundabout way and I have to say that it has made me think and study my Bible. I actually have had trouble figuring it out b/c I really can’t always figure out what we disagree on. Maybe I was just fortunate to grow up in a fundamentalist church that had a balance. I did go to BJU for most of my school years and my husband worked there for a couple years. I know what they believe and honestly don’t hold it in the same contempt you do. I will admit that when my husband left working there ( and it was for financial reasons- we wanted to be able to live on his income alone) I did feel very free, so I do understand that. There are a lot of rules and I am glad that they seem to be relaxing some of those. I pray they continue that evaluation. Although having a lot of rules can=legalism, I do disagree that someone having a strict standard necessarily means they are legalistic. I guess b/c I know so many people there and other people that choose a standard and don’t feel it earns them favor with God. We all have standards-areas where the Bible isn’t perfectly clear and we make an interpretation. I don’t impose that on others but I personally have them.
Anyway I have heard Dr. Berg preach many times and have never got the impression he feels we need to earn grace. Frankly I feel that is a misinterpretation. I know that at this point you will probably give me all sorts of examples but I just think that after years of hearing him in context and watching his life I would have to disagree. He is not a miserable man. In fact he seems to be quite the opposite. I am not saying he is perfect. Like every man who preaches I may not always agree. I believe that we always have God’s grace. It is what keeps us alive and moving and able to get through each day- whether it is a good or bad day. We don’t deserve it and can never earn it. However, I do believe that there are moments when I am not aware of that when I do not allow God to help me make right choices-where in pride I choose my own way. It is not the fault of God’s grace but mine for choosing my own way. His grace is always there and especially when I fall. He doesn’t make me do right and accept His help. Just like He doesn’t make us get saved. He holds us responsible for not choosing Him in salvation.
I do understand where you are coming from. I have been immersed in the BJU enviroment.
I did go through a trial of infertility that did change my view of God and helped me understand His love and grace in a new and wonderful way. We waited five years for God to bless us with an adopted son. I learned so much and still do as this trial still brings me pain at times. I know God loves me and it is not dependent on me at all. I had good times and some very bad times in how I responded to God though all of it. He always loved me!!!! But had I chosen bitterness would I have the benefit of the experience of God’s grace? Yes it would have always been readily and freely available. I have a hard time writing what I mean so please forgive my attempts.
July 15th, 2008
gordo Says :
Religion is the study of the way God works.
Magic is an attempt to use the God’s power for your own purposes.
Jim Berg is teaching the practice of magic.
July 15th, 2008
cklewis Says :
Thanks for delurking, Stacy! Nice to “see” you!
There’s no contempt in the least, Stacy. Not at all. I wouldn’t have stayed 20 years in a place if I didn’t sense God’s work there. It’s quite the opposite of contempt. If I were truly feeling contempt, I’d ignore the whole thing. And it’s only because I’ve had so many private emails saying, “I know there’s something wrong with that expression of God’s Grace, but I can’t put my finger on it” that I’m saying this at all.
I understand that Jim Berg is fine, generous Christian man. Everything I’ve said about him personally has backed that up. I have said publicly in the past that I have longed admired his gift for being a “father to the fatherless.” I’ve witnessed that first-hand. And when we lost our Elise, his words to me at her memorial service still ring in my head — “It’s okay to be sad. Be sad. You’re supposed to be sad. We live in a lost and dying world, so be sad. But never be sad without hope.” He was exactly right, and I’ve thanked him personally for saying that. And I’ve thanked the Lord for him.
But this is not a personal criticism against him. It’s a systemic problem that is brought to light in his words. We can be distracted by our affection and admiration for a gifted man. We can hope against hope that our alma mater is still orthodox. But — look at the words. Those do not match up with Scripture. They simply don’t.
I’m not trying to change “them” per se. I’m trying to speak for the scores of us who have left but still have that incorrect reading of Scripture ringing in our ears. It is incorrect, and no one dare speak of it. This is no deacon board, no elder session, no church congregation to whom we can appeal. But this is in error. And it needs to be pointed out as such.
God comforts us so that we can comfort others. That’s what this is.
July 15th, 2008
Tricia Cobb Says :
One of the things I love about you is that you don’t just accept whatever you are being told and blindly follow it. Not to say that you (or I for that matter) haven’t done that in the past, but, your eyes are open. When you hear something that doesn’t quite sound right, you ponder it, you pray about it, you study up on it, and then, you make your decision. As Christians we are so often accused of being unthinking and just following the leader. I just recently had a discussion about this with an older (and much, much wiser) woman at our church.
Thank you for always thinking, always questioning, and for being bold enough to speak up for your convictions.
July 15th, 2008
stacy Says :
Thanks for answering me. I really would love to discuss this more. This may not make sense but I think I need to wait until I figure out what it is I am having trouble with regarding what you are saying as opposed to what I have always believed. At times I honestly have a hard time figuring out what the difference is but yet I have so many questions forming. I have been looking at my Bible for answers in this. I want to know what the Bible says and not what people say. I can’t say that what I have seen in the Bible brings me to complete agreement with you. I see your point and realize that neither does what the Bible say completely match up with all I have been taught. Anyway you may see me delurk again if I can figure out how to phrase my questions. If anything this has made me start looking for myself. I am thankful for that.
Also maybe contempt wasn’t the best choice of words. I apologize for that.
July 15th, 2008
cklewis Says :
No apologies necessary, Stacy!! I understand.
I’m trying my best in these most recent posts and in the ones that will follow in the next 10 days not to talk about my perspective. It’s not about Me vs. Jim. It’s about these words versus Scripture. Yes, as a rhetorician, I’ve tried to be “productive” in suggesting a solution. But if we don’t agree on the alternative, I don’t care. The problem we should all agree on — that this is not how the Bible presents the Gospel.
Come back tomorrow because there’ll be another post that makes this clearer, I think. So stay tuned!!
July 15th, 2008
Brian Says :
Berg would probably shudder at the thought, but he sounds a LOT like Binny Hinn and his ilk
My first thought was that Berg sounds a lot like Bill Gothard when he talks about grace. But I can see the likeness to Hinn as well. Both are based in what I can do to get power from God.
July 15th, 2008
Justin Says :
God only gives grace to the morally strong–that’s why the Pharisees and Puritans are still around.
July 15th, 2008
Christy Says :
I remember hearing this sermon and then thinking to myself afterward how I really needed to work harder and harder to get grace. I felt so guilty and defeated, and confused too because I wasn’t quite sure how to go about getting the grace. I left my seat that day thinking all about ME and not about God at all!
But now, by God’s grace (which I did nothing to deserve or work up), I cast myself on mercy!! I cast myself on love! Jesus, my only hope, my only plea! My Righteousness, my Great High Priest! Jesus I trust in You alone!
July 16th, 2008
Admiring True Christianity Says :
Maybe grace is synonymous with self-restraint. It seems like that word could be substituted in most every place Jim Berg uses the word “grace” in the context of not sinning.
July 18th, 2008
A Time to Laugh » Blog Archive » “Sokath! His eyes uncovered!” Says :
[...] as God continued to teach me about how much He loved me, after I had heard a contradictory sermon on grace and another eisegetic sermon of the Christian life, I turned to the tools I knew best to understand [...]
July 19th, 2008
Mel Says :
Brian said My first thought was that Berg sounds a lot like Bill Gothard when he talks about grace. But I can see the likeness to Hinn as well. Both are based in what I can do to get power from God.
Agreed re: Gothard. Camille, no wonder you asked me where you’d heard that before. That definition of grace is *eerily* similar to Gothard’s. I’m glad I was gone before that was preached in those words at BJU. Very glad.
July 28th, 2008
Saving versus Sanctifying Grace? - The PuritanBoard Says :
[...] this idea is stated in this sermon: SermonAudio.com – Getting Grace from God I blogged about that here as well (with some transcriptions of the sermon itself). [...]
August 25th, 2008
A Time to Laugh » Blog Archive » Always Yes Says :
[...] through our efforts but a state we recognize when seeing ourselves through Heaven’s eyes. God gives grace to the humble not because we’ve earned it but because there’s nothing left in and of [...]
November 25th, 2008
Cathy Says :
Jim Berg gave me this in pamphlet form when I was counseled by him. No wonder I did not understand what Grace was. No wonder I was so scared of not measuring up. Thanks for posting this.
May 3rd, 2009
A Time to Laugh Says :
[...] more, of course. Lots more. And it’s so different. Before I heard sermons on “How to Get God’s Grace:” Stubborn people have no grace. . . . God says, “if you wanna go down My path, I will give [...]