I wish you the best, as well. We are allied in Christ and will one day reside with Him, in eternity….together. What?! Seriously, I do hope that you and your family have a wonderful and blessed Christmas. I am thankful that the body is diverse and that all “differences” aside, I can count you as a sister in Christ. Thank you for challenging me today.

sem

Also, I’ve yet to state any impassioned support for the GOP. Looks like I’m not the only one assuming, m’dear.(condescension really leaves me cold.)

There’s no condescension. It’s how I’d talk if you were sitting here next to me.

BUT!! I’m not assuming anything about YOU. I don’t think you’re understanding the thread of the conversation. I’m not talking about YOU. I’m talking about the usual religious right assumption that the GOP is the only one who has the solution to abortion. That you repeat that abortion is wrong and why is proof that you’re really, truly not understanding what I’m saying.

I AGREE THAT ABORTION IS WRONG.

I don’t agree that the usual way we try to stop abortion is working. That is not a statement about you. It isn’t.

We’re not connecting here. It’s not about tit-for-tat. It’s about a gross miscommunication and unfounded assumptions that a person who doesn’t vote a particular way must not be [insert god term here].

I so wish you the best. And I hope you have a very blessed Christmas. Even though we disagree about politics, we’re allied in Christ. And that’s wonderful! Diversity in the Body is a wonderful thing.

Peace!

Abortion was one of the easier topics to pick up but there are many things in your prior response that we would differ on. I wouldn’t know where to start. I don’t hang all of the Gospel on the abortion issue but there is right and wrong. This is an egregious wrong. It is wrong because we are created in His image. Human life has sanctity. Abortion is wrong because God said so, not because the GOP, that you seem to have such a grudge against, says so. I’m not saying this because I doubt your personal stance on the issue, but because of your unabashed support of a President who not only differs in belief, but has the power to do something about it.

I was not a one issue voter by any stretch. I had issues a-plenty in mind when I voted. The things I feared are all coming to pass very quickly. The mistake I made was assuming that because of our common faith, our understanding of what is bad policy would be the same.

But then, we could do this all night. “You don’t understand me…” “No, you don’t understand me…” “You’re snarky…” “Nuh-unh, you’re the snarky one.” There are some fundamental differences in our beliefs. Ones that will not be sorted out here going tit for tat all night. I have cookies to make and kids to feed. You probably do too.

More moderate than who? Stalin?

And you accuse me of being nasty?

If we cannot agree on something so basic as Abortion=Bad, what hope do we have?

Re-read that. Do you really mean it? Really? Is that our salvation? Agreeing *against* something? Really??

Besides you’re the one not paying attention, m’dear. I *agree* that abortion = bad. I SO AGREE. How many times have I said it?

What we disagree on is the current republican’s use of the abortion issue. I say it’s bad. You . . . I’m not sure.

But you’re putting words into my mouth and making me say something that I haven’t said or that I believe.

THAT’s the problem. And so it goes. . . .

No. I meant it. That’s why I said “in all sincerity.” I do wish you the best.

“So far from you I’ve gotten paranoia, sarcasm, projection”

Sem. You’ve not engaged me. You’ve blamed me personally for all the horror you perceive in America. You want me to be sorry. You want me to feel guilt. You want me to feel bad. You said I was “duped” right off the bat.

I don’t feel bad. I was actually pretty pleased with what I heard in Oslo recently. I was actually pretty proud.

“this insistance on your part that you know exactly how I feel and think about the GOP and GW. You could be the human equivalent of the Magic 8-Ball.”

Huh? I’m not the one assuming negative intent. I’m not assuming anything about you and yours. I’m only defending — AGAIN and over a year post election — the argument that when you compared the travesty of justice of GWB and the still-current nonsense coming out of the GOP, I’m so not sorry about my choice. Not at all.

Honey, you blamed *me* for America. I don’t know what exactly you don’t like about America or Obama, but it was my fault. So I assumed no negative intent from your words. But you are pretty much divining all sorts of unfounded conclusion from me.

“You know what’s really sad? I really liked what I had seen of this blog. I truly only stumbled onto this thread this morning. I had put you in favorites after following a link and reading of your experiences with grace in the reformed church.”

What’s sad about that? I’m not sad about that! Really. You know what’s COOL about that? We can disagree about politics and still enjoy God’s wonderful grace. How is that sad? That is WONDERFUL!! Really!! Think about it — writing me off because we disagree about POLITICS!??!?!??? What does that say about the Faith? Really. What does that say about Evangelicalism?

“I would encourage you to take a step back and read what you’ve written to me today.”

I have.

“That’s some nasty stuff, and beneath you, intellectually and otherwise. ”

Name it. I am not sorry for anything I’ve said. I’ve said nothing I would take back. I said nothing about you. Heck — I don’t even know your name! As far as I know, we’ve never spoken. There’s nothing “nasty” or “beneath” me. You don’t like it. And that’s fine. But sarcasm can be an appropriate response — even “biblical” or Christ-like.

Again, m’dear, you want me to be sorry. You want me to feel lousy about Obama. You actually said: “Sarcasm cannot cover the fact that you made a huge mistake that we are all paying for.”

Now. Tell me. What response other than sarcasm can one give to such an out-of-the-blue, unproven accusation? I have to believe you don’t hear what you’re saying. And that’s the problem with conservatism as we know it — the complete lack of self-reflexivity.

“You should know all of the glaring fallacies in your responses. You made the jump to GW, who was not on the ticket in November.”

Did you read the entire thread of this particular conversation? I was voting — ONE YEAR AGO — against GWB and against the GOP. My bringing up GWB is relevant to this particular conversation which you have entered. So that it may not have been in your mind does not make it irrelevant or out-of-thin-air. It was part of this conversation from a year ago.

“this is about who you voted for, not who you were purportedly voting against (again, someone who was not running).”

Actually no. That’s not what I said a year ago. And what “this” is that you’re bringing up today has yet to be clear.

“You voted FOR someone who was not shy about his left leanings and belief in redistributive wealth. You voted FOR someone who was not shy about his support, no, enthusiasm for abortion. This healthcare legislation, if passed, will have us paying for abortions with our tax money. This is the issue.”

I like all of that about Obama. You have several unproven conclusions in your statement that I don’t “agree” with. But I don’t mind the left-leaning stuff (he’s actually more moderate). I like that Obama (and Bill Clinton, too, for that matter) will talk to those of us on the “prolife” side. And I’m all for his changes with the health care monopoly.

So, no, sem, I’m still not sorry.

“I cannot believe that BDS is so strong that people would vote for all of those things in order to vote against someone that was not even running. I can’t account for it and I am sincerely wondering what Christians who voted for him are thinking now, let alone what they were thinking then.”

I can’t speak for “Christians.” I can speak for myself as a Christian. I don’t buy all the fear, dread, and conspiracy from the Right. I don’t. I continue to refuse to let them use me and my values. I don’t buy anything that comes out of Fox News. I like what I heard in Oslo. I like what I see Obama trying to do with health care.

So . . . when the health care legislation gets past (and I’m still waiting), we’ll talk. But the GOP is too busy being obstructionist that I don’t think politics are at their best right now.

That’s what I think. You’re, of course, not happy with that.

If you really and truly want to TALK to a person about this — a person who shares your faith but not your politics — I suggest starting with actual questions and not accusations about how I’ve been “duped.” You were showing your cards there. Big time. It takes no Magic 8 Ball to see that.

I wanted to know what was going through the minds of Christians who voted for him. So far from you I’ve gotten paranoia, sarcasm, projection and this insistance on your part that you know exactly how I feel and think about the GOP and GW. You could be the human equivalent of the Magic 8-Ball.

You know what’s really sad? I really liked what I had seen of this blog. I truly only stumbled onto this thread this morning. I had put you in favorites after following a link and reading of your experiences with grace in the reformed church. Before you write anything else in response, I would encourage you to take a step back and read what you’ve written to me today. That’s some nasty stuff, and beneath you, intellectually and otherwise. You should know all of the glaring fallacies in your responses. You made the jump to GW, who was not on the ticket in November. This is about who you voted for, not who you were purportedly voting against (again, someone who was not running). You voted FOR someone who was not shy about his left leanings and belief in redistributive wealth. You voted FOR someone who was not shy about his support, no, enthusiasm for abortion. This healthcare legislation, if passed, will have us paying for abortions with our tax money. This is the issue. None of that stuff was a big secret prior to November. I cannot believe that BDS is so strong that people would vote for all of those things in order to vote against someone that was not even running. I can’t account for it and I am sincerely wondering what Christians who voted for him are thinking now, let alone what they were thinking then.

What’s a real shame is that in blaming *me* for our country’s problems you don’t even remember who GW or the GOP is.

Of course, I’m the cause of the problems in your metanarrative. And, of course, I should be terribly regretful for causing all these problems in your metanarrative. It’s called entelechy.

In all sincerity, I do wish you the best, sem. God bless.

[/sarcasm]

::yawn::