Comments on: “Why did you leave Heritage Bible Church?”

By: elunn

elunn — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:45:45 +0000

Dear Camille and Grant,

Thank you for openly sharing your painful experiences at BJones. I spent eight dreadful years in silent suffering there. The spiritual abuse they dish out is relentless and brutal. They have made no changes toward grace and freedom in 35 years ! They are what they were. Today I look on their circle with pity and sorrow. They are sadly, sadly missing out on the sweetness and warmth of our grace-abundant God.

Bessings of joy and hope to you,
EL

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:13:39 +0000

Praise the Lord, Josh! You’ve hit the nail square on the head. There are no dispensations of grace, no differences between saving grace and sanctifying grace: it’s all one big, wonderful, pervading, consuming, OCEAN of grace!

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:59:30 +0000

I’ve been following this conversation with interest. I find myself in the same position as many of you. During my first year as a graduate assistant working on my master of divinity degree I began to seriously question the pragmatic philosophy of the school as well as the prevailing position and direction of fundamentalism. I began to covertly study things out for myself and was struck by the contradiction between the teaching of grace in Scripture and the legalistic culture fostered on campus. Eventually I had my own “eureka!” moment when I realized that we live each day completely by grace; the same measure of grace (100%) necessary for our justification is the same needed for our sanctification. I didn’t know it at the time but after reading your post Grant, apparently this is basic Reformed Theology. Thank you for sharing your story, it has encouraged me and many others.

By: Grant

Grant — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:16:42 +0000

I’ve read Blue Like Jazz — love it! I’ll have to check out Bell’s book.

As someone who’s been in both camps, let me tell you: being in a PCA church is NOTHING like being at BJU.

Although I could say that there are aspects of the emergent movement that I find resonance with, the reason I left BJU wasn’t because I was looking for a different religious experience or a new way to look at my faith. I left BJU because they chose to place policies and politics above Scripture. When I pointed that out to them, they showed me the door. It’s really ironic to note that my problems with BJU began when I took the Scriptures more seriously than they did.

By: tj

tj — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:42:54 +0000

Interesting website Grant. I have some friends from BJU and they seem like nice people, but I can tell that the system there is very monolithic. I also have some friends in the PCA and they seem to hold to a very monolithic system as well. Why not avoid such monolithic structures altogether and enjoy the freedom of a more emergent model? Blue Like Jazz and Velvet Elvis are huge for me right now — check em out!

By: Grant

Grant — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:18:03 +0000

Hey, Tim — good to hear from you.

From what I know of the OPC, its theology is sound. It’s “distinctiveness” from the PCA is more a geographical one than anything else, isn’t it? OPC being more northern?

By: Tim

Tim — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:02:59 +0000

I am sorry to hear about your resignation. I, too, have become more Reformed in my theology. My home church, Calvary Bible Church in Ohio, was a Presbyterian church until 1943 and the only doctrine holding me back from becoming a hardcore Reformed thinker is my Dispensational persuasion. What do you think about the Orthodox Presbyterian Church? I just started attending a church in Indianapolis which, ironically, just ordained Charlie Owen’s former pastor of Grace OPC in Columbus where Dr. Dunbar played an organ recital a few years earlier.

By: dan keller

dan keller — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:11:10 +0000

At least ORU and Liberty have regional accredidation and tenured faculty.

By: Grant

Grant — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:28:03 +0000

< < It is clear that the Jones family owns the school and dictates all management decisions. In that respect I donâ€™t think it differs materially from Oral Roberts U. and similar organizations. >>

If nothing else, it’s a for-profit, family-owned business. It doesn’t surprise me in the least, then, when pragmatism and/or profit outstrip perspicuity.

By: Kenneth Holt

Kenneth Holt — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:57:38 +0000

I think it finally dawned on me when Stephen Jones was named president that the title “cult” may not be too extreme to apply. It is clear that the Jones family owns the school and dictates all management decisions. In that respect I don’t think it differs materially from Oral Roberts U. and similar organizations. I frankly have been completely disassociated with the school and anyone that could be called a fundamentalist since 1986. I recently re-established contact with people I knew there, some fundies some not. The email correspondence with the fundies proceeds swimmingly until I tell them where I go to church and where my children attend school, then I receive no further replies. Sad.

Having said all that, I am thankful for BoJoU for two things. Although they don’t apply the standard to themselves, they did constantly hammer into us that we should search the Scriptures to verify that our faith and conduct comports with its demands. Funny thing is, when I did that, I realized how dreadfully wrong they were (God works in mysterious ways). Second, they nurtured my love of literature and gave me an abiding love of the arts. I had the opportunity to perform in three Classic Players productions and a couple of Vespers productions. I also was introduced to opera, which is the musical love of my life. It is doubtful that I would have had these opportunities elsewhere. On balance though, I would not attend the school if I had it to do all over again. I am teaching my children to love Shakespeare and opera, so there is no need for them to risk material spiritual harm to gain on appreciation of those things.

Coram Deo.

Peace.

Kenneth Holt
Sugar Land, Texas