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Fallen Stars Reported in Greenville, South Carolina

For whatever reason, Dan Olinger’s sermon from yesterday’s chapel is not posted online. They posted Third’s uninformed rant from the day before, but not Olinger’s. The current students were thrilled by it, so they posted notes all over social media. So we know what he said. . . . BJUAccreditation has one outline for you to see.

Honestly? There’s nothing new here. I think the kids like it because it’s a relief after Third’s irrationality. The whole If-you-don’t-like-it-LEAVE argument is old news. I heard it in faculty meeting from Third in the mid-90s when he was defending the interracial dating prohibition. “If you don’t agree with us on this, then you need to leave!” I looked at the people around me in the Concert Center when he said that. I didn’t know anybody among my peers who “agreed” with that rule. We all thought it was terrible. And we just chalked up Third’s words to a crazed rant. And we ignored him. As usual.

But still this argument gets paraded out. If you don’t like something, leave? What if you can’t? What if you’re six credits from graduation? What if you or your kids are sick and you need the health insurance? What if your unaccredited counseling degree has left you unqualified for anything outside the gates? What if you really don’t know life outside of BJU? Just leave. POOF! Like that?

So if you have no other options, you must sear your conscience? Really?

Another time they used that argument was in 1957. The campus “crime” then was not disagreeing with white supremacy or objecting to sexual crimes against minors. The crime in 1957 was praying. . . . for Billy Graham’s NYC Crusade. The evidence of the conditions at BJU in 1957 is overwhelming, so I’ll just offer one example from a BJU Senior, James Kilgore.

Kilgore was shipped in the middle of his last semester simply for standing up to the abuse he was getting from the entire administration. Here’s his account as he told L. Nelson Bell, Billy Graham’s father-in-law and PR contact. You can read it all here.

Does it sound familiar? Have things changed at all in the last 55 years under “new” management?

Here’s why this matters:

There are a very brave group of students who, on their own accord, are doing something none of us who have attended Bob Jones University have ever had the courage to do (we middle-aged alumni need to be honest with ourselves about our cowardice and conformity). They are planning a quiet and peaceful statement on Monday, December 12th. Their cause is Do Right BJU, and their act will be to simply wear red next Monday in order to stand in solidarity with victims of sexual abuse in BJU fundamentalism. That’s it. Wearing red. As controversial as praying. While PR Rep Brian Scoles has publicly stated that there are “no plans” to discipline these students for speaking out, the threats come–veiled and otherwise.

I guess the stars have fallen, BJU, eh?

Check out others opinions on the issue: Daisy, Beth, Mildly Insightful, Chuckles, BJU Accreditation, and, of course, the Chancellor Himself

41 thoughts on “Fallen Stars Reported in Greenville, South Carolina

  1. Camille,

    Thank you for bringing this story to light. As someone who was put on spiritual probation for doing what I thought was right, I empathize with this man. It really plays with your head when an authority figure you respect tells you you have spiritual problems and you need to “get right with God.” Who knew? I thought I WAS right with God. Then you begin to question your own voice–your own conscience. At least I did.

    John Pigate

  2. I left. After 14 years there from first grade on.

    It was a gut-wrenching experience. They still stamp my transcript (even my bja one) with “WITHDREW WHILE ON DISCIPLINARY PROBATION.” None of my friends were allowed to communicate with me. One was shipped for doing so.

    To tell people they can “just leave” is disingenuous especially when Bob Jones has made a point of condemning anyone who leaves like that.

    This is a cult. It should and must be closed.

    1. Rich, I believe it is a serious sin for BJ to have deliberately ‘forbidden’ people to talk to you. Interference in relationships is a serious sin in my beliefs. Going behind people’s backs is interfering. A meaning of respect is ‘to not interfere.’ The three Bobs really had no respect for anybody. To intentionally b by going behind people;’s backs and forbidding contact, this is so cultic that it stinks like CULT. These people have such an artificial, irrational concept of unity… that what they think believe and do, has nothing to do with unity at all. What they ‘do’ directly causes the exact opposite of unity. They bring division between people and wreak havoc wherever they go. These people who hurt people like this, are the most ‘unforgiving’ people around. And they have the ignorance and hypocracy, to blame people like ‘us’ who have been burned by this kind of awful treatment, to call ‘us’ BITTER! Like ‘the contradiction of sinners’ is simply mind bogglingly so illogical and so irrational and so unreasonable, that there is nothing of any common sense or real intelligense in it at all. The irrationality of emotions, thinking and belief, is ‘out in a la la land stratosphere. The irrational behavior is ‘off the charts.’ That’s why we ‘feel crazy’ when they’re doing this to us, like ‘before’ we escape their control. I’m so sorry you were hurt by these people at BJU. If you ‘stay’ you’ re judged. If you ‘leave’ you’re judged. No matter ‘what’ you do, you’re always going to be ‘judged.’ BJ seems to have a negative radar ready to ‘home in’ on his next poor victim or victims, about matters, that Jesus would not even have a problem with at all. A group whose high and mighty leaders spiritually abused me, many years ago, didn’t really want me there anymore. So I left. Then they wanted me back. Why? Because my leaving made them look bad? Probably. So that was for selfish reasons. But also because having me there made them feel good about themselves. What a bunch of wimps! God used the pastor and some newcomers to their group, to ship them all out, about four years later, not only from leadership, but from the entire group altogether. Man oh man, what goes around comes around eventually. I agree with you Rich, how disingenuous it is for BJ to say “just leave”, when everybody knows those who leave are signing up for “perpetual condemnation” by the man! But if people ‘don’t’ leave, they never get out of that awful environment. The spiritual jealousy envy and competition from the two Bobs back in the early fifties, towards ,against Billy Graham, was pretty epidemic and systemic in their confused minds and lives. They hated Billy Graham, because Billy Graham’s ecumenical witness and love for God crossed over the unnatural, artificial cultural boundaries,boundaries that had been made by men, by men who did not want to love their neighbor. The two Bobs ‘couldn’t stand’ an Evangelist like Billy Graham, loving people that the two Bobs actually hated.
      ‘Anyone’ daring to ‘cross over’ cultural boundaries that the Bobs believed were divinely created, well, that was the end of the world for them. but you, see, this man Billy Graham, could not be bought or used by the Bobs. He was called and chosen and used by God and the Bobs couldn’t get their grimy, mealy, religious hands on the man to control him. Any thing and anyone that the Bobs can’t control, has to be bad and evil and out of God’s will, or too modern! How could obeying Jesus’ New commandment to love one another possibly have anything to do with ‘modernism?’ I agree with you that it is a cult. I hope you are healing from this awful treatment. there are a lot of people who understand this abuse. so keep trusting those who really care, and sharing your pain. This is a safe place. And you are loved.

  3. I tried transferring out my junior. I tried to leave. The college (Wheaton) that I wanted to transfer to would not accept me because I had too many credits from BJU. Now, I am a frequent attendee of lectures at the aptly named “Billy Graham Center.”

  4. Haven’t read it all, but what a joy to see! 🙂
    Would love to know the great ways God used this young man and his wife after they got the boot. Getting the boot is usually the precursor to greater, greater things!:)

    1. I agree Mary. And take a look at that free, loving smile on this man’s face. you can see the life and love of Jesus in him. That man has ‘real christianity’ in his life. He looks like ‘Nathaniel’ as was seen by Jesus. “There is a man in whom is no guile.” What a brave man to go through all that scourging abuse, and never lose his cool. The powers that be really tried to ‘bring him down to their mean level.’ But he would not take the bait. What character. What integrity. He sure was and is in the same class as the later Dr. Ted Mercer.

  5. Sounds so much like the same ‘awful’ spirits of meanness, deceit, and hateful lies, that the late Ted Mercer went through. And Ted’s nightmare experience with the ‘two irrational Bobs’ happened only a few years before. A smear campaign against this fine man’s character and reputation, even to the point of trying to destroy a wonderful couple’s future marriage plans! Such shocking ‘human evil.’ I cannot think of adequate words to describe this kind of sin. It so rocks my soul! This man is now still a young 54, so I wonder where God is using him today? Anybody know? I think I need to add another descriptive bit of language to the three BOBS! EGO-MANIACS! And RELIGIOUS SOCIO -PATHS. Bad Christians like these men seem to bring either the very ‘best’ out of other believers, or the very ‘worst.’ I feel saddened about the ones who become morally corrupted by such inhumane-unethical hatred and apathy spewed out by these three embarrassments to American christianity! Those who become corrupted by these terrible evils that take place on this religion poisoned campus of BJU campus, never started out that way. May God set these victims of this poison, free, from all their dreadful mental and spiritual bondage. Three men who formed a University to ‘protect the truth????!!! But who have ‘used’ their positional power to ‘poison people’s minds’ to loathe and hate their neighbours???!!! I think the Pharisees of Jesus day would be embarrassed by them! God have mercy on their souls!

  6. Hey everybody, there is a James E Kilgore on Facebook, who looks like he’s in his early fifties, and likes all the same people that the younger James liked. He’s pretty good looking too. This man lives in Canton, Georgia. Can’t tell if he’ a minister. Looks like he’s a christian as he’s promoting people keep Christ in Christmas and keeping the Season a christmas season a Christian one, and not allowing this “happy Holidays Season thing to take the word Christmas from it.

  7. Hum… you said you did not leave not because you did not agree
    but you choose to ignore… Could it be possible that you and your husband were being paid to further your education, and then, to be silent was better then to show boldness and courage to do “the right thing”?
    History has plenty examples of people that choose to be silent for conveniency sake as your is just another one. The disciples dispute for about one verse “who would betray the LORD” and then they got silent because what really matter to them “Who is the greatest among us”. Something else was your motivation back then, and if you change that is enough proof that anyone can change period.
    Either way, you made your choice! Just grant the kindness to everyone to do theirs as well. After all, it is a free country…

    1. Could it be possible that you and your husband were being paid to further your education, and then, to be silent was better then to show boldness and courage to do “the right thing”?

      Could it be possible that you have no idea what you are talking about? This was before we left for IU. We owed BJU nothing. Nothing.

      Something else was your motivation back then, and if you change that is enough proof that anyone can change period.

      Did I say otherwise?

      But thanks again for trying to make this all about me when I was pointing out a really big bunch of crass cruelty from the BJU administration.

    2. Luiz,

      BJU collected every dime of the cost of Grants and Camille’s education they received at IU. BJU does not have a “education benefit” in any similar to what the US States and Federal Governments, and many US Corporations offer after an employee achieves a certain amount of seniority on their job. Many of these entity’s offer some sort of continuing education benefit or tuition assistance that makes it possible for an employee to further their education with the assistance of the employer. Usually, a percentage of furthering the employee’s education is paid or reimbursed to the student as secondary or post-secondary courses are completed which the student does NOT have to repay to the employer. Often a separate check is issued, as a separate check is issued for expenses such as travel expenses, for the companies that reimburse an employee for courses.

      BJU does the opposite. The school takes every DIME back from the employee. This isn’t a free benefit. Grant and Camille, and other faculty members are required to repay every penny. Correct me if I am wrong Camille, but I believe WITH INTEREST.

      1. Well, you and I have talked about that, Chuck, and I’m still not clear. That’s another document reveal for another time.

        But the fact simply is that Third said this in ~94. And we left for IU in 96. The dates don’t line up in Luiz’s accusation at all. False accusations are like that.

  8. I watched the link of Scoles. I noted as well that while he did say that they have no plans on taking disciplinary action on those stating their concerns are,that’s not to mean they won’t take disciplinary action on those that take part in the planned protest. In other words it’s the usual MO; It’s not what they say but what they don’t say. I also noted Kim Kelly kept using the term ‘alleged’. It’s only ‘alleged’ before court; after court, it’s verdict.

  9. This letter made me cry and then I found myself praying that God would grant justice for all the people abused at the hands of BJU administration past and present. And I prayed for special blessings for this man’s family. It made me cry, because I assume James and Ruth never got back together……Brief interlude while I check out the Facebook page of James E. Kilgore in Canton, Ga, and guess what? He is married to a woman named Ruth who lists employment as Minister Emeritus, Lake Arrowhead Chapel. There are friends who have the last name of Buerge! It looks like James and Ruth did get together after all and that they now have a lovely family. Praise God!
    But this letter tells a horrible story. And it is one that has been repeated throughout the subsequent reigns of BJU presidents. Please, Lord, make it stop.

    1. To those who commented on the “Fallen Stars”… post, I am the James E. Kilgore of the 1957 controversy (?) at BJU. Thankfully, the grace of God blessed Ruth and me and sustained us through all that struggle. Now, we have spent more than 54 years together and I continue to have a Marriage and Family Therapy practice. We retired after founding a church together and servIng 24 plus years. Our congregation served people from 16 different denominations in harmony. We learned that people need to be accepted before they realize and appreciate their adoption in God’s family. I pray that all those who have struggled for their personhood during their formative years will experience the joy of a maturing faith, a joyful family and an accepting community of God’s children. As the movie title says, “It’s a wonderful life!”

      1. What an incredible testimony Dr. Kilgore – did you ever think your experience/testimony would be such a great encouragement so many years later?! Thank you for the wonderful of standing up to authority with and for being the Ambassador of Christ in doing so and exposing the tares among the wheat. May God continue to bless you and your family. Sincerely, Melinda

      2. Amazing story! Nothing shakes out the raccoons like standing for your convictions. (Which sounds like something Dr. Bob would have said.) So glad you’ve been blessed. Inspired by your patience, all those years ago.

      3. Dr. Kilgore, I’m so glad you responded to the post about your historic /amazing stand at BJU, which Camille, the brilliant detective that she is, searched for in the BJU archives! The amazing stand for truth that you took in 57, the righteous support you gave for such an honorable man such as Billy Graham, was certainly a most important true Godly character revealing event, in your then ‘younger life.’ God must have been so pleased with your stand, that He couldn’t ‘wait’ to bless you. The wonderful description of your post BJU life certainly speaks volumes about that. People will and do try to ‘get at us’, but we don’t have to give in. You sure didn’t give in to man. You yielded to God and God led you where he wanted you to go. I too give Billy Graham the respect and honor the man has earned for his consistent loyalty and faithfulness to God, to his family, and to the Gospel.I believe Billy has been one of the greatest statesman and Ambassadors for Christ and the Gospel that the Twentieth Century has ever seen. Christians who opposed and resented this Godly man, who tried to discredit him, and discredit his ministry, did so at the peril of their losing God’s approval on ‘their own ministry’ if they did not repent of this sin. Billy Graham’s faithful work for Christ,which you stood up for,clashed with ‘the work of man’ which BJU powers that be, falsely believed ‘were’ the work of God. By their resentment, opposition and jealousy of Billy Graham, they sadly ‘showed’ the true colors of their own ungodly attitudes and behavior, and the spiritual things which were ‘really controlling’ them, in their interior lives.’ It is God’s Grace that has empowered us to be and become what God created us to be. And we really owe everything that is good , right and fruitful in our lives, to this wonderful God who is the one true source for all that is good and true and life giving. I am so grateful to God for His faithful protection over your life and Ruth’s, that nothing that was bad or negative, was ever able to separate you or come between your lives and God. God Bless you as you both enjoy your retirement together from parish ministry . May God continue to grace your ministry of helping people in counseling and therapy. Merry Christmas from Canada. p.s for you and Ruth to have blessed such an ecumenical community, you must have truly been ‘ecumenised’ by the Holy Spirit. Billy Graham’s book “The Holy Spirit” has a chapter about that. I’m an ecumenical christian too. God has graced me to love people of different denominations, whether they love me or not. “Love is the higher way.”

  10. hahaha… you wait to post until you “come up” with your facts… ask YOUR HUSBAND when he traveled with me. Conveniency, that is the key with you all. Nobody wakes up one day and say “I will be different” you just calculated your every single move, and you all know that! Check…

    1. Since this isn’t post isn’t about me but about the threat from Bob Jones U to “like it or leave,” of course I didn’t offer a date. I was recalling the times that argument is used.

      But again, this isn’t about me. Nor is it about Grant. You’re grossly uninformed in your accusations. If this is all you have is mocking scorn, go elsewhere. You’re not welcome here.

      1. Camille, it seems to be a pattern from people like this. They really are very angry and resentful, but they cannot direct their anger to whatever is causing it and acknowledge it as truly belonging to themselves and something, such as feelings and emotions that they really need to ‘get a handle on’ and self-manage. They’re like ‘walking time bombs’ slinking around looking for something to trigger them so they can have a little emotional release explosion. They have to go looking for a human target to ‘offload / dump / project this anger and resentment, and even try to transfer shame and condemnation onto their human target.’ So passive-aggressive’! Because you and Grant are healed and free, there’s nothing in your lives, that this crazy stuff can ‘land on.’ I do admire your cool response to the man. you never cease to amaze me. Luiz really sounds incoherent and confused. He doesn’t seem to even know what the post is actually about.

      2. Camille, I am wondering, is it the ‘bad reputation’ of BJU “plus’ it ‘not’ being having proper, recognized accreditation Status, as to why students cannot transfer their BJU credits to another institution, why their piece of paper with credits on it, mean nothing? Are these the t only two reasons? Or isit also the quality of education given at BJU seen as below par, of a lower standard? The reason I ask is, that you and Grant are certainly not ‘below par quality standards’ teachers. A BJU student transferring to another institution to having to do their pre- meds all over again, is it that other insitutions just do not trust the level of scholarship and training at BJU re pre meds? Or that they just don’t trust BJU at all for ‘anything’ that they do? A yes for the last question would come as no surprise to any of us. Thanks for however you answer this question.

        1. There’s a difference between having the choice to read another blog (something that costs no money and doesn’t influence others (and over which others have no influence)) and having the so-called choice to leave a college or environment that you’ve been socialized to believe is the only correct way and if you leave you’re out of the will of God. There’s a big difference.

    2. Luis: You’re really mean. And seem to be a bit obsessed with the Lewises. They’re nice people, but seriously ….

    3. Dude. Your lack of care for Bible passages that forbid judging motives is showing. You might wanna zip it up. It’s embarrassing. You don’t have much to back you up anyway. Plus: show some respect when you’re on someone else’s turf. The last time someone spoke to me like that in my own “house” they got schooled. You may need to get schooled as to how to treat people on their own turf.

    4. As if Camille and Grant had a crystal ball and knew the future? Get real man! What a stupid thing to say! Did your brains get put on the wrong part of your body, like your ‘butt.’ Better be careful when you sit down. Cause your brains might blow right out! OOOOPS.. There goes a another one! How embarrasing!

  11. This sounds all too familiar. My parents both worked for BJU and as a result my siblings and I were all forced to go their and my parents struggled my entire childhood to pay the tuition. My one sibling wanted to go into the medical field after graduating from the Academy, but was bullied into attending BJU. My sibling was told that BJU’s medical program was actually better than other schools and that lots of med students go on to great careers from BJU. They also threatened that if my sibling left, my parents would lose their job and that would force the rest of us to attend public school. During the freshman year my sibling began to have contact with many others who had gone through BJU’s premed program only to have to start over at a real med school once they graduated. My sibling decided that one year was enough to have wasted and began applying for real med schools. My sibling was accepted to one of the top-5 med schools in the country, but found out BJU had indeed lied. Nothing from BJU would transfer. When BJU found out that my sibling was leaving the following year, they made life miserable. My sibling was immediately put on spiritual probation and lost all student privileges. My sibling was repeatedly called in for counseling and Dr. Berg was emphatic that there was some moral sin in my sibling’s life that was being hid. When my sibling left BJU, the university bullied all of us. My parents were made to disown my sibling and we were not allowed to have anything to do with this sibling. We were sent a letter, which my parents still have, from Dr. Bob that states that by leaving BJU my sibling was not right with God and gave the steps my sibling would need to take if my sibling ever wanted to get right with God. One of those steps included my sibling coming back to BJU and finishing my sibling’s education. The humor in this is that now my sibling is a medical doctor at one of the top hospitals in the country and is also teaching at a top med school and suddenly my sibling is on BJU’s mailing list. I guess even if you aren’t right with God according to Dr. Bob’s standards, they still want your donations.

    1. Wow, this is so unbelievably mean,hypocritical and ignorant, that I can’t find words to comment on what BJU did to your family. But praise God, your sibling followed their dream and became a good doctor and even teaches! Your family must be so proud of this sibling. Every time any of us reads one more train wreck story of another abuse scenario like this one, we can come to no other conclusion. Either BJU changes or closes. Because one of these things has to happen. Maybe it’s time for an ‘occupy BJU grounds sit in protest! Only problem being, people have jobs to go to and families to support and work for. But something has to change. Thanks for sharing your story. I pray God gives back to you and your fine family, “two times what the Locusts have taken from your family.” Read Joel chapter two. God bless you and keep on being free.

    2. Thank you for sharing that. I grew up in the same cult environment – it was a sin to even attend another Baptist church – if so – the threats started and only people who weren’t right with God left – as the pastor could never be wrong unless you were actually saying God/the Bible was wrong – what audacity. Of course this was a place that Bob Jones visited annually – so “Birds of a feather!” And yes – they were also big on breaking fellowship with family members.

      1. It’s really strange about the way certain strains of Baptist pastors and their narrow little Baptist church cultures, ‘think and believe’ about baptism, which by the way is actually UN scriptural! They don’t really ‘practice’ the Bible that they ‘say’ they believe in. Some Baptist churches insist on re baptising a baptist, if and when they happen to ‘move’ to live and work somewhere else, and of course have to relocate to another Baptist church! And it’s so silly. Because ‘one baptism’ should really be enough! But you see these kinds of Baptist pastors, don’t trust other Baptist pastors,don’t like other Baptist pastors ‘or’ their churches, and are so irrationally ‘suspicious’ of them, that they really don’t believe other pastors ‘did it right’,’baptized’ a believer the right way! Or that the Baptist church so and so just came from, ‘might not have’ right doctrine’ etc., etc., and ‘THEY ALL BELIEVE 100 % of THE VERY SAME DOCTRINE. To these compulsive-religious re baptizers, baptism and church membership ‘must’ be one and the same thing! If these Baptists ‘really believed’ in what they were ‘doing’ when they baptized professing believers, and practiced what the scriptures actually ‘say’ about baptism!!!!, they would understand scriptural baptism as being ‘baptized into’ Christ, and not into a local church membership religious ‘group culture! Professing believers ‘belong to Christ’, before they ‘belong’ to a local church body. One relationship is with the supernatural God in Jesus Christ. The other is a human relationship with a local church full of humans. And some pretty ‘strange’ ones at that! So if they move to a different location and to another Baptist church, they moved ‘out of Christ’ and so have to be ‘moved back into Him?’ Ridiculous! I know many have been hurt and burned by these types of Baptist churches. But I really do not believe that all Baptists and all Baptist churches are alike. It’s the ones and the people who are in them, that have ‘the most elitist / superiority’ attitudes and mind set, that are the worst ones who do the most damage. I have learned from being burned too many times by ‘bad Christians’ that, it is dangerous to trust any people who really do not respect you. People who do not respect are people who will eventually ‘hurt you’ when given the chance. ‘ANY Baptist Church’ remotely related to BJU is always going to be suspect. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for us all to pray for and see, a revival of many, many Baptist churches, leaving and exiting the religious controlling BJU orbit, and reconnecting with the real Jesus , HIS True Gospel of Grace, and with the brothers and sisters in Christ who are freely, happily living in REAL CHRISTIANITY!’ Wow what day that would be!

      2. Pastors can be wrong and are wrong, whenever they sin against members of the Body of Christ, and believe they are immune from being called a sinner. They are fallen human beings and sinners. But they think and believe their position’ as pastors, gives them immunity from any accountability with anyone. Pretty dangerous thinking which is a very serious deception! God can never be wrong. But wrong Bible interpretations can be VERY wrong. And so often are wrong! In church places where people ‘use’ Bible verses to ‘justify’ meanness, cruelty, and hateful behavior, such false use of the Bible comes right out of the deception that men can interpret and use the Bible in whatever way or manner that is convenient to them. Misinterpretation is a danger. When we look at what’s behind all of the abuse in these kinds of churches, we can see layers of deception: bad doctrines / false beliefs / twisted thinking / twisted truths, all of which have been produced by wrong use of the Bible. All the harsh discipline / punishment and shunning of people / interference in family relationships / ostracisation, etc., etc. is justified by the IFB mantra, ‘It’s in the Bible”. And behind those layers, are ‘seriously wrong interpretations’ of the Bible. Misinterpretation is a danger. Baptists all believe 100 % of the same christian doctrine, ie the fundamentals, but they can’t stand each other! Why? Something has gotten into their relationship with Jesus and their relationships with other Christians, and ‘poisoned them’, poisoned the relationships. Their relationships with Jesus and other Christians have become toxic. And when under any mental or emotional stress , pressure, conflict of any kind, they become ‘agitated and hostile’.And out comes all that toxic poison of false religion and mean hateful behavior. People in power with toxic religion, and poisoned relationships, are like walking time bombs that will have to explode sometime. Just like a very, very controlling household, will also be a very, very angry household, so it is with churches. all of that control makes people feel very, very angry. Where is that anger going to go, when people in those controlling churches are falsely taught that’ they are not allowed to be angry???!!! That only the pastor and his henchmen can be angry? See what I mean? All the power in the hands of a few, empowered by false interpretations, misinterpretaions of the Bible. No one can be safe in churches power hungry deacons, poisoned with toxic religion, controlled by rage and anger, are mental, emotional and spiritual ‘human walking time bombs’! God have mercy on them. and may God set all of their ‘church captives’ free!

  12. I am just really continually surprised and dismayed by the personal attacks on Camille and Grant. And just saddened.

    I first got to know Camille on a parenting support board about six years ago, and over time have met with her and gotten to know her and consider her a friend. We were pregnant with our youngest children at the same time, which is quite a bonding experience! (Her son was born on my daughter’s due date, actually! *grin*)

    I did attend a fundamentalist baptist school for 3 years (7th-9th grades) and was taken to BJU on a school trip for a music competition. And got to sleep on one of those “triple” bunk beds and met some lovely students. It was an interesting experience, and many of us left thinking WOW we thought it was tough at our school! But that’s the extent of my personal connection to BJU. (Oh and 3 years of their boring English grammar books!)

    Anyway, over time I formed the impression that BJU was a legalistic, grace-less institution that even some fundamentalist folks I knew (or their kids, anyway) didn’t want to be associated with. So I was quite surprised when I met Camille, who at that point just seemed like an amazing breath of fresh air coming out of Greenville. She was engaging, loving, and surprisingly intellectually rigorous, for someone coming out of a “backward fundamentalist school” that wasn’t even accredited. I was just shocked, and remember telling her that she had raised my opinion of BJU if someone like her was on their staff and had been educated there, and at the time had positive things to say about it.

    That was the last thing that surprised me about BJU. I wasn’t totally surprised by Camille & Grant’s decision to leave BJU, since I knew some of what was going on prior to them leaving. I haven’t been surprised by their treatment by the university, though I was very saddened. I haven’t been surprised that they have continued to speak the truth, even when it’s hard to do so, comes at great personal cost to them and they really don’t have to be doing what they are doing. I truly believe they are doing it out of love and caring for those still part of the institution or who have been hurt in the name of Jesus by people representing or part of BJU. Because that is undeniable to me… I see the hurt, I read the stories. I am aware of what is taught, have read Berg’s book, etc.

    But, yes I am surprised when in a misguided and sad effort to defend BJU people make ugly personal attacks on them. I can only think that they are coming from people who are hurting, but just can’t admit it. One thing I’ve learned as a parent is that it’s hard to act right when you don’t feel right. So my prayers are for those who have been hurt or had their lives affected in a negative way because of their association with BJU, and those who continue to be hurt by BJU teachings and a false understanding of what it means to be a Christ-follower.

    Just a note from someone who is happy to consider Camille a friend and is very proud of what she’s doing. 🙂 And I’m also proud to all of you who are also speaking out and supporting each other. You are all in my prayers!

    1. Elizabeth, thanks for saying this. I so agree with you. Camille is really blessed to have real friends like yourself. Prayer really changes things. But standing up for change also changes things. Many good people outside of that ‘system’ are courageously and faithfully ‘doing both.’ It’s such a blessing to read their stories. I believe the more we share and support the people who have gone through so much, the more we grow in His Grace and Love. I believe God is empowering all of us to become better people, better friends and Christians who are becoming ‘more real.’ Thanks for your post. God Bless, Barbara.

  13. The best evidence Camille has that graceless place absolutely dead-to-rights are the people trying to prove her wrong.

    Like you, Luis. When I knew you at BJU, you seemed so much happier. What happened?

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