It’s time to speak.
Over the last two years, I was politely ordered to remove particular blog posts because they were contrary to the image of a proper “Christian.” I immediately complied.
I have now reposted them in their original order and the approximate date. You can see them and judge their significance for yourself.
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20 thoughts on “It’s time.”
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I don’t know if I should laugh that you had to take these things down or if I should cry from the stupidity of someone thinking they were wrong. I’ll think about it and figure it all out when I’m up nursing at 4:00 in the morning and exhausted. :o)
I’m trying to understand what you’ve said between the lines. Who ordered you to remove certain blog posts – your husband, BJU, your readers???
Bon jour!! Well, Grant wouldn’t do that. And my few readers really wouldn’t attempt to exercise that kind of power. So that leaves the second one in your list.
Camille,
I’m disappointed that BJU’s new leadership didn’t measure up to the job.
My response to you being asked to remove any of these blog posts??? Spare me. I’m embarrassed by my alma mater.
RE: I’m embarrassed by my alma mater.
Of course. That’s the point of the post.
What amazes me is when bloggers who are overworked and tired have time and energy to post their grievances online.
It’s not that complaining about a menu item is not very “Christian”; Doing so simply reveals a lack of class and decorum, two things that are far more likely to be “caught” by others (such as students) than taught. I don’t mean any offense here—I’m as guilty as anyone for wanting to spout off about being tired and overworked, or about an occasional chapel message. But I’ve found that doing so is like spreading poison.
Just my two cents. I am really sorry that you-all won’t be teaching at BJU anymore, and I wish you all the best as you pursue God’s will. God bless you both and your adorable kids. I remember praying for you-all during your pregnancies.
Not at all. When problems have been addressed privately and then among a larger group, do they end there? Not according to Matthew 18.
No. It’s about authenticity. It’s about transparency. It’s about being human.
I’ve studied rhetorical decorum. I know what it looks like. What’s one rhetor’s decorum (i.e. “style”) is another’s strait jacket. The point is that we don’t all have to look alike. And forcing one fellow believer into a singular corporate image is not Scriptural or necessary. And it’s going to cause problems in the end.
The original posts were far from “spouting off.” They were admitting a fatigue with a touch of humor.
Admitting human frailty is a poison? I don’t understand. . . .
🙂 Thank you for your past and present prayers. We love our colleagues and students at BJU and are, too, praying for you that your ministry to God’s people will flourish there.
Good grief. These are such trivial things. In most of these cases the poor woman was simply expressing that she was fatigued, or that she didn’t care for the lunch fare. Then there’s the horrific recommendation of a book on nursing that she thought might be helpful to other women. And most egregious of all is that she was guilty of thinking and expressing her wariness of aberrant theology. It’s unfortunate that you characterize things such as these as “grievances,” a “lack of class and decorum” or “poison.” Pretty strong terminology for square fish and tuna boats.
Decorous Christianity does not mean that we deny the preferences and the needs bound up in our humanity. Christ, as a matter of fact, was known to express his preferences and needs Himself.
(btw — tell Joan I said Hi! 😀 )
I’m super-glad to see your Keswick note back. It was so helpful to me, and I think to many others who were feeling uncomfortable and couldn’t figure out why.
Oh, and I hated the square fish too. I weighed less at the end of college than I did at the beginning of high school thanks to institutional food!
As a former student who got in hot water for saying several things not to the University’s liking on my own blog while still there I understand how you feel. Though I was told to delete the blog or no longer remain a student at the university. I will be praying for you!
Hey, how do you know two different Joanna’s when I only know one?
I agree with Camille and Grant’s responses that being sanctified does not mean that we must deny human preferences, feelings, or sensations. Furthermore, I challenge anyone to actually live out the philosophy articulated by my counseling professor back at BJU that all such preferences were wrong (how can you order from a menu without the implied assumption that you like some kind of food better than another?).
But I see a deeper problem, and that is a failure to distinguish between *feelings,* which are not sin but a result of being human, and *actions* which can be sin. It is a not sin to feel exhausted or to make that feeling known (Grant cites Scripture for this point well). It is only a sin when we act on those feelings by neglecting a responsibility that God (not some person) convicts us to do. C.S. Lewis has a powerful paragraph on this point I will post if I can find it. For now suffice it to say that I, at least, have never known Camille to skip a class or let her family starve because of how she felt.
This is an extreme example, but I am reminded of a personal story from another BJU prof. He told his entire class that when his wife died, he was heartbroken. He knew it, admitted it, and realized not only would he feel this way for a long time, but he was not going to hide or suppress those feelings because they made him human. However, he was also in his office the very next day–just in case a student needed him.
I’m really sorry to hear the things you and your husband have gone through. Rest assured I ran into some of the same blogging snags in my time at the University and got more than one call from someone high up “asking” me to remove content. I had to pretty much put my humanity on hold for several years because complaining about food or not fully understanding the institutional definition of “offensive” was so dangerous. And yet I kept blogging and talking, mostly because I quickly realized I’d go clinically insane otherwise. One had to keep so much to oneself or risk being labeled as having a “heart problem.” For every action of the (paranoid?) few, though, there are a dozen actions of the gracious and understanding, and despite all the things that made me grind my teeth I still walked away thanking God for the opportunity to be there.
Thanks for sharing your heart. I look forward to keeping up with what God’s doing with you two in the future.
Hey, I’m glad these posts are back. The Keswickian theology one in particular was helpful to me in pinpointing what was wrong with some things I’d been taught, and, in so doing, has helped me be a more discerning Christian.
C&G> I am far more sympathetic to C’s posts (and the feelings behind them) than I’ve communicated, as well as to some of your other frustrations with the “if you’re a Christian, you’ll be happy no matter what” crowd. I’m certainly glad I didn’t run into any of them anytime after either of our miscarriages. I have at times told my class that I had been up all night with a sick child and was tired and pretty irritable. I believe that transparency is generally good (it’s not always a virtue though). I also don’t care for fake happiness (although I’ve almost quit greeting one person I know with “How are you?” because she’ll answer the question literally with details, and she’s never doing fine, unfortunately….I’ve switched to just “Hi” for her unless I know I have the time to listen. I have from time to time wished that she would feign happiness.)
I was also not precise with some of what I wrote. Calling the fish and being tired a “grievance” is not what I had in mind (although it is what I wrote–no argument there). Posting about being exhausted and not liking a particular dish is overall harmless (although I would never complain publicly about a dish my wife or friend offered me, and I personally think it’s best extend the same courtesy to the Dining Common. Even as a joke, there are people whose feelings would be hurt by such a comment). I do agree with hilly’s assessment regarding the paranoid vs. the gracious. I am sorry that you (C&G) had such a run-in. I’m sure it would color my views as well.
What I do regard as harmful is pulling the posts back up with the result of shedding a bad light on BJ and its personnel after a public falling out (whether that was the purpose, it is certainly the result). Perhaps I would understand better if I were in your shoes, but I don’t see any spiritual or practical good that comes out of this kind of post. I’ve had bosses and coworkers I disliked (for what I regard to be good reasons), but airing their foibles and failures to others rarely seemed to be beneficial, even after the working relationship had ended. I’m not sure how Matthew 18 fits with your decision to repost, but since I’m not in the middle of your situation, I definitely don¹t know everything you had in mind. Usually I just have the urge to let others know how bad I had it or how ridiculous the situation was that I had to put up with. I can’t say how it is for others, but I don¹t find the urge to be an expression of my redeemed nature, and I can be authentic and transparent without following it.
Your posts on sanctification are a necessary corrective to a rules-based view of holiness that plenty need to hear, but I find that it doesn’t fit everything that Scripture says on the topic of who bears responsibility for the process of sanctification (Gal 6:4; 2 Tim 2:19-21). I believe that when get to heaven I will be struck both by how much God did for me that I didn’t know about at the time, and how much more closely I could have followed him.
The square fish last week wasn’t stuffed flounder, but it was OK, and I have no idea who Joan is.
I hope I’ve disagreed cordially–if not, I apologize in advance. I respect you both and wish you the best. Thanks for letting me post on your turf.
I think perhaps that the fact that you announced that they were taken down, why, and then made a pithy comment about them is not a good thing. If you wanted to post them that’s fine. But you should have left the rest out. Why do we need to disparage other Christians? I fail to see how the fact that they were innocent makes ridiculing a fellow believer “ok”.
Define “good.” 🙂 Must everything we say have a concrete, practical outcome. If I tell my husband about the bargains I got at the grocery store or the fact that I love homegrown tomatoes, does that do any good for anyone? No. It’s human. It’s small talk. I mean, let’s be perfectly honest. There’s a lot of stuff on this blog that’s plain silly. The whole “giggle” category is pure foolishness. It does no good REALLY.
I would ask if it does any harm. THAT is the real question. Because they were judged to be threatening to a singular, public image.
At the time of the posting, I had maybe 10 readers. It was a very close knit group of fellow moms. The fish quip was not a displeasure of any system but just a silly comment. I fail to see how it was any more or less constructive or helpful than the Mets blog I just read. It just is. That’s what blogs are! 😀
By looking at my stats and these comments, I think you can pretty much conclude that all my readers are believers, yes. The Invisible Church, in other words.
You don’t know all the details. I’m actually revealing very little for many reasons. If you think that our leaving is over DC fare, you just don’t have the whole story. My husband’s blog discretely covers more of the issues. But oh my word YES, we’ve been addressing what we have perceived as error for a very long time. The Keswick post reveals a portion of those constructive critiques.
I think that you may be inferring a more narrow slice of these issues than is implied. It’s not about blog posts really. And if you haven’t experienced that ideological confinement, I am so relieved. But I’m not sure that that’s the case since even here you feel it’s necessary to be anonymous. Now, I don’t mind, in the least! I’m glad you’re here!! But it does reveal that there is some sort of “putting on hold” that you’re feeling.
Sure! I know I do all these things! A LOT! But, to be perfectly honest, even that — even talking to people I thought were my closest friends — got me in the same kind of trouble as these silly fish posts did.
See Scripture doesn’t have much patience for image. Whited sepulchres and all that. What Scripture does command is that we bear one another’s burdens, that we encourage and edify, that we love. It isn’t about looking good or even being good. It’s about being kind.
We can all imagine extreme conditions such as that. I find it grating when I read mothers complain about their crying babies when I’ve buried a child I never heard cry. That is your experience and it is valid. But there’s more at stake here than fish. Much, much more. And it’s just not accurate or comprehensive to lump our stand as nothing more than petty complaints. Honestly, there’s a lot more there.
Few people are going to die over a Chevy shirt. 😉 But your comparison is revealing. First of all, a school is not a business. It’s a school — where ideas are tested through their expression. Not only that, but it’s a part of Christendom where the motto “in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity” has been our guide for millenia. So your comparison to Ford might be more revealing than you mean it to be.
And I appreciate that, and I see your spirit. 🙂 I do hope that our leaving and our communication has an influence on students. I’m praying it does. Grant and I have done the hardest thing in leaving BJU that we’ve ever done. We have knitted our adult lives to that organization, and we have bathed the last two years especially in prayer. When we were asked to either squelch expressing how God was working in our lives or risk getting fired, we made the hard choice — to leave. Because to go against conscience is neither right nor safe, as our dear Luther said himself, we had to make the conscienced choice. I hope that for you or any of my students, if you are faced with someone — even a powerful religious authority — telling you to go against your conscience, you will listen to the Holy Spirit too. I pray that perhaps our example might help make that decision easier for you in the future.
You know, we all have our tough moments. We all fail. Sometimes I think having children makes these sorts of eruptions multiply, and I don’t say that proudly. And what I’ve learned is that in the Faith when you are starkly aware of how God’s grace has enveloped you in a way you don’t deserve, it’s a whole lot easier to look at a situation like this and say, “Yikes. He must be having a rotten day.” That’s very hard to do in an environment that teaches you to stand aside and judge on externals alone. Very hard. And Joel, that you’re bringing that up here and now reveals more about your lack of grace in interacting with a brother in Christ than it reveals about a teacher who was very, very worried about his student’s technical rehearsal. In all things, charity.
🙂 I see your heart. And I appreciate your contribution. I hope you sense the same in my words. And I am praying for you in the semester(s) ahead that God keeps you and guides you as you finish your education.
Grace to you!
Hello,
I don’t know the story about why you left BJU, and I don’t really need to know. Just want to share my feelings now as a current student – as tactfully and as accurately as possible. I also realize that Grant and Camille have their viewpoints and are not likely to change them, but I would just like to hear responses on these issues.
I am glad to see the BJU has not been openly attacked. I don’t agree with every single modus operandi of the University, but I also recognize the impact that negative and non-constructive criticism can have.
Re: the stuff about the fish and tuna boats, I am not suprised that they were asked to be taken down. Please explain to me the good that those posts could have done for anyone?
In the privacy of your own home is one thing, but as a leader and an example to students and colleagues, posting your displeasure of the “system” online is neither constructive nor helpful.
Also, regarding Matthew 18, does your reader base constitute the Church? Does that passage also apply to problems with the “system”? And do the problems addressed involve some sort of Scriptural error on the part of those who are now being publically corrected/confronted/fill-in-the-blank?
Hilly, please justify to me your complaining about food for whatever reason.
Laurie,
To whom exactly are you referring when you say “BJU’s new leadership?”
Also, and I do not mean for this to be insulting, but I feel sorry for someone whose “humanity” has to be “put on hold” because they can’t post things on a blog that they really want to. You don’t have to keep things to yourself – you can always pray about anything that is bothering you, or troubling you, or when you want to vent, whatever. Praying will more often than not change our focus from ourselves back to God. We are also able to privately talk with others about these same issues as well – especially to a spouse and/or a best friend that knows our heart and will help us bear our burdens, whether they be large or small.
I have been to parts of Mexico where 6 people live in a 12′ x 12′ shack, maybe with a roof, maybe with 4 walls, and hardly ever with a door… A dirt floor, no plumbing, no electricity, and fresh water on the days that the heavily-guarded water trucks come, assuming they can afford to get any… So it is with this in mind that I point out the potential harm of complaining publicly about eating at a buffet to which no one has forced you to go…
Just as a side note, even secular employers do not look too kindly upon those who are “not on board” with the company, so to speak. If I work for Ford, I’m not coming to work with a Chevy shirt on, talking about how it is better to work at Chevrolet or saying how Chevy trucks are superior to Ford trucks. I would think that Ford might have something to say to that employee – and that has nothing to do with a spiritual reason. I mean, legally we can say whatever we want. Many good men have died for our right to free speech, but the right to free speech is not a carte blanche to express whatever we feel like to whomever we feel like with no consequences.
I don’t see a problem with everything that you posted that was asked to be taken down. Also, you complied with your God-given authority when asked to remove them. My main point is just to get you to think about the influence that you and Grant have on students, whether you are aware of the extent of that influence or not.
For example, a true story:
I was in a rehearsal for a grad recital in WMC, onstage and playing the final number of the rehearsal. We had gotten a late start because the group before us was at least 10 minutes late getting out. Our group leader reminded them we needed the building and left it at that. We started with 10+ minutes of our 30 minutes gone already of our last rehearsal before the recital. Things were progressing slowly our time ran out. There was another group waiting, so we were doing our best to finish – the teacher from the waiting group was now pacing and making it very obvious that he was irritated with our group. Our group leader told us to just finish the piece (he was playing along, part of the group). The whole piece was about 3 minutes, start to finish. We were 10 measures from the end when the other teacher jumps up onstage and forcefully – childishly, actually – complained to the leader about how it was his turn and how we needed to leave right away. I don’t think he realized that I heard him. Such were his words and the delivery of his words that I was very upset by them – it would be an understatement to say that they were not becoming a Christian. Maybe it just wasn’t a big deal to him. Maybe he didn’t realize anyone else was listening – or that his attitude would affect others – I don’t know. But that thing that was done in a semi-private manner carried a great deal of influence – so how much more can these “little things” influence people when proclaimed publicly?
I hope these comments are taken in the right spirit. I don’t wish to become involved in some semantics war. I just want to express the opinions of myself and the facts of the Word in a thought-provoking and accurate manner.
Define “good.” 🙂 Must everything we say have a concrete, practical outcome. If I tell my husband about the bargains I got at the grocery store or the fact that I love homegrown tomatoes, does that do any good for anyone? No. It’s human. It’s small talk. I mean, let’s be perfectly honest. There’s a lot of stuff on this blog that’s plain silly. The whole “giggle” category is pure foolishness. It does no good REALLY.
I would ask if it does any harm. THAT is the real question. Because they were judged to be threatening to a singular, public image.
At the time of the posting, I had maybe 10 readers. It was a very close knit group of fellow moms. The fish quip was not a displeasure of any system but just a silly comment. I fail to see how it was any more or less constructive or helpful than the Mets blog I just read. It just is. That’s what blogs are! 😀
By looking at my stats and these comments, I think you can pretty much conclude that all my readers are believers, yes. The Invisible Church, in other words.
You don’t know all the details. I’m actually revealing very little for many reasons. If you think that our leaving is over DC fare, you just don’t have the whole story. My husband’s blog discretely covers more of the issues. But oh my word YES, we’ve been addressing what we have perceived as error for a very long time. The Keswick post reveals a portion of those constructive critiques.
I think that you may be inferring a more narrow slice of these issues than is implied. It’s not about blog posts really. And if you haven’t experienced that ideological confinement, I am so relieved. But I’m not sure that that’s the case since even here you feel it’s necessary to be anonymous. Now, I don’t mind, in the least! I’m glad you’re here!! But it does reveal that there is some sort of “putting on hold” that you’re feeling.
Sure! I know I do all these things! A LOT! But, to be perfectly honest, even that — even talking to people I thought were my closest friends — got me in the same kind of trouble as these silly fish posts did.
See Scripture doesn’t have much patience for image. Whited sepulchres and all that. What Scripture does command is that we bear one another’s burdens, that we encourage and edify, that we love. It isn’t about looking good or even being good. It’s about being kind.
We can all imagine extreme conditions such as that. I find it grating when I read mothers complain about their crying babies when I’ve buried a child I never heard cry. That is your experience and it is valid. But there’s more at stake here than fish. Much, much more. And it’s just not accurate or comprehensive to lump our stand as nothing more than petty complaints. Honestly, there’s a lot more there.
Few people are going to die over a Chevy shirt. 😉 But your comparison is revealing. First of all, a school is not a business. It’s a school — where ideas are tested through their expression. Not only that, but it’s a part of Christendom where the motto “in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity” has been our guide for millenia. So your comparison to Ford might be more revealing than you mean it to be.
And I appreciate that, and I see your spirit. 🙂 I do hope that our leaving and our communication has an influence on students. I’m praying it does. Grant and I have done the hardest thing in leaving BJU that we’ve ever done. We have knitted our adult lives to that organization, and we have bathed the last two years especially in prayer. When we were asked to either squelch expressing how God was working in our lives or risk getting fired, we made the hard choice — to leave. Because to go against conscience is neither right nor safe, as our dear Luther said himself, we had to make the conscienced choice. I hope that for you or any of my students, if you are faced with someone — even a powerful religious authority — telling you to go against your conscience, you will listen to the Holy Spirit too. I pray that perhaps our example might help make that decision easier for you in the future.
You know, we all have our tough moments. We all fail. Sometimes I think having children makes these sorts of eruptions multiply, and I don’t say that proudly. And what I’ve learned is that in the Faith when you are starkly aware of how God’s grace has enveloped you in a way you don’t deserve, it’s a whole lot easier to look at a situation like this and say, “Yikes. He must be having a rotten day.” That’s very hard to do in an environment that teaches you to stand aside and judge on externals alone and to keep score. Very hard. But really, to be honest, that you’re bringing that up here and now reveals more about your lack of grace in interacting with a brother in Christ than it reveals about a teacher who was very, very worried about his student’s technical rehearsal. In all things, charity.
🙂 I see your heart. And I appreciate your contribution. I hope you sense the same in my words. And I am praying for you in the semester(s) ahead that God keeps you and guides you as you finish your education.
Grace to you!
You know, Joel, as wrong as that faculty member may have been (I just can’t imagine who it was, you sly dog…!), it’s just as wrong to have carried resentment in your heart all this time. The Bible tells us that it’s incumbent upon us, when we’re offended, to bring the matter to our Christian brother’s attention privately. So… have you done that?
Well, C & G, may God truly bless you on your journey and may you use these happenings as a springboard for what God has next. I rarely see you guys but, I think of you often and have enjoyed reading your blogs. Other than life’s best and worst that has come your way from when we were college student’s, I don’t see where you have changed much from the way I remember you as fellow students. You knew where you stood then and you certainly know where you stand now and I’m glad to have witnessed it.
BTW, your welcome around my campfire anytime and I promise I won’t care if you voice your opinion about the fish or not. I’m not that thin-skinned.
Take care.